Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
7x Mr. Olympia 212 Champion Flex Lewis presents Straight Outta The Lair, the podcast that aims to bring you vital information for your life's ambitions, providing valuable insight from interviews of the many many different faces that walk through our doors at The Dragon's Lair Las Vegas and a few from the man himself.
Straight Outta The Lair with Flex Lewis
Phil Daru | Elite Fighter Training | Straight Outta The Lair Podcast
Join us for a riveting conversation with Phil Daru, a top-tier strength and conditioning coach who has worked with elite fighters like Dustin Poirier and Hollywood celebrities. Our episode begins with reflections on our long-standing friendship, Phil's relentless journey commuting between Port St. Lucie and American Top Team, and his impact on my brother's rugby career with the Chicago Hounds. Phil shares his innovative training techniques that blend the old-school grit with modern advancements, providing an eye-opening perspective on elevating athletes' performance and confidence without compromising their weight class.
Explore the world of elite boxing and MMA training through our discussion on mental and emotional recovery for fighters. Discover how activities like ping pong and pickleball offer much-needed breaks from rigorous training, while elevation training at Mount Charleston plays a crucial role in enhancing performance. We examine the challenges of adapting traditional coaching mindsets to embrace new methodologies, illustrating how data-driven results can bridge the gap between skepticism and acceptance for both coaches and fighters.
Lastly, we dive into the psychological battle athletes face, especially when bouncing back from losses. Phil emphasizes understanding an athlete's motivations, whether it's fame or family security, to reignite their passion. Hear stories of personal growth and endurance challenges, including a grueling 150-mile trek from Miami to Fort Pierce. This episode promises a captivating blend of insights into athlete training, mindset, and the relentless pursuit of excellence, leaving listeners motivated and inspired to reach their own peak performance.
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----- Content -----
00:00:00 - Intro
00:11:27 - Athlete Training and Elevation Insights
00:17:00 - Evolution of Strength and Conditioning
00:27:31 - Motivating Athletes Beyond Losses
00:32:09 - Elite Athlete Training and Mental Growth
00:38:14 - Endurance Challenge
00:51:11 - Fight Life Membership and Fighter Supplements
today's guest is one of the top strength and conditioning coaches on the planet, known for training some of the most elite athletes and also some of Hollywood's best. Join us on this episode to hear an incredible story of a 150-male ruck which took this guy to three days in the hospital. You do not want to miss this. This is a special episode with Phil DeRue. Anyways, straight out of the lair, Phil Derue in the place. We've already started having conversations. This is how we do things. My man. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:I appreciate it brother man, you and I have known each other for a minute, right, I think, 10 years. Yeah, you saw, to give a little bit of a back story, we met for the first time. If I'm not correct, if I'm wrong, tell me when correct if I'm.
Speaker 2:If I'm wrong, tell me, um, when you came to my boca return location, yeah, and you were the dad right.
Speaker 1:No, no, sorry, your friend, my business partner, your business partner and, uh, that's when I had the private facility and we were full of a hodgepodge of different gym equipment. Yeah, yeah and phil came in interested in picking up the the whole lot, the whole. Thing the whole.
Speaker 2:Thing it was one of those things where, like I had, I had the gym. That was successful, right. And then I seen how you set it up and it was a private area and I was like, man, I want to do this, this is where to go. And so, I think, going to you and then, obviously, meeting you, getting with your brother too as well he ended up being an intern for me. It was awesome.
Speaker 1:Full circle story, bro, like we met and then his career truly took off because you were in port st lucie at that point in time. Right, it was solely port st lucie yeah and you were commuting to american top team pretty much every day. What's that? What's that trip?
Speaker 2:it was about an hour and a half every day one hour I'm back.
Speaker 1:I still do that really yeah, I just so.
Speaker 2:The gym that I have now is in Deerfield, which is down the street from ATT, and it's been now seven years that I've been making that commute. And I go to Miami too because I work with Timbaland. Yeah, so we got the Miami trip, which is, you know, in some ways and depending on the traffic you're looking at three-hour trips, wow, and then three-hour back, no joke.
Speaker 1:We're sliding in the names here, but for all the fans that don't know, this man right here has truly taken training to the next level and taken his athletes to the next level as well. You've trained with the best of the best people I can call my friends as well, from the Dustin Poiniers to the Yuanas to all of the above, all the savages that you see coming out of the American Top Team. They were all doing strength and conditioning with my man right here, and then, a few years later, when my brother came over, he took him under his wing and gave him the opportunity to flag him and train with the best of the best. And you guys now are both in your own stratosphere. Luke now has gone back to the roots of rugby, and Chicago Hounds is now his home. And you, my friend, every time I hit on instagram you've got some celebrity. You're either training in in the home of or fighters that have followed you, whatever you've gone.
Speaker 3:So it's it's a testimony to you, my friend yeah, and for me too, like and I haven't known him for 10 years like you, but I've been on. I've been on you for a few years because I love the style of training that, all the techniques I utilize and I think that's why I first hit you up like I utilize those kettlebell techniques all the time, because that style of training is exactly where I'm trying to be in a very performance driven space, with strength, the functionality, so like I geared towards that immediately and so like when Flex was like that's my boy.
Speaker 1:Get him on the show. I was like get him out here.
Speaker 3:I was like I want to train with him. Dude, like let's go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we've been trying to get on this, get him on the show with being to passing ships. Right, it's not because we haven't tried for sure. And then when he found out, we were friends.
Speaker 2:He was like get him on the show. We can definitely train. I'm here until the end of November.
Speaker 3:Definitely, and him too Because we've both been talking about Flex has gone down the road a little more functional stuff and we can tell him about the whole Pilates journey but trying to do a little bit of that cross training and more functional and really including that, because it's something I've always tried to do. But I really appreciate the specific training methods. I really love it and, like I said, I take them all the time and bring them to my backyard.
Speaker 2:Well, I see you work the mitts man, yeah. And I was telling them I was like man he can crack. I was like you got some skills, bro, you just got to get him in the ring.
Speaker 1:Now he's gonna say hey, listen, that is going to be a forecast.
Speaker 3:Let's do business, aside this guy's cracking whips in the business wasn't it, bradley martin, we were aiming, yeah bro, I was starting, dan blazarian was was really don don king that whole thing and it didn't end up not happening. But I was, I got my weight down, man, I was like you know, I was 220 that's the thing right 220, yeah, 260 oh, so it's 260. How much do you weigh?
Speaker 2:right now 225. 225? So where would you fight at.
Speaker 3:You think I mean for that I would stay right where I'm normally at. You know, I wouldn't try to cut any weight Because, like there was a couple fights that were there in front of me and you know one of them that seemed like it was a better fit for me. I was trying to cut down to 205. And I haven't cut that low in a while. So like doing that cut for me was like I got myself ready to go and then it ended up not happening.
Speaker 3:But I still felt good about just getting in the shape. You know, just doing the training. You know it was like even when we were talking earlier, like for me I've always wanted that, like go back and, you know, do a a fight. That mattered, right, you know something. And just going through the training camp and pushing myself is like that journey part is what I like. And I like having something scary right, like something like that is in front of me. That's like I gotta tackle this right and I have another man in there gonna try to kill me, but I'm gonna, but I'm gonna take him out, you know, and I and I like having pressure, I like having some kind of thing that makes me buckle down and bite down on my mouthpiece.
Speaker 2:It's got to get you out of bed, right, that's it. The training is. For most of the fighters it's constant, right, but then you just rev up in a different gear when the time comes, when that eight weeks hits, then you know, okay, now we have to really put in the work. And I hits, then you know, okay, now we have to really put in the work. And I think that if people can stay, like we talked about, stay ready, right, the biggest thing is staying ready at all times being 80, I like that, you know, but always having something to strive for.
Speaker 2:And look at your limiters, right, what is the limiter, what is the technical limiter that you have? What is a physical limiter that you have? And at that time of off camp is what we call it. We want to work on improving that. So for mma, let's say, for instance, you come from a kickboxing background. Okay, so your limiter may be jujitsu, it may be takedown defense. We want to utilize our time right there to improve on those limiters so that once we get into camp now, we can hone in on our skill set, develop a game plan around our skill set, and then again we lessen those limiters. So now there's no gaps in the system.
Speaker 3:Right, and, like I would imagine, you know, coming from an MMA background, right, and you know, for those who don't know, he was also a fighter right going through your training programs and the style of training, did you see a gap in physical training? Like, did you see like we can do this better, there's an improvement that can happen here. Like, did you feel like that's where you found that when you were a fighter?
Speaker 2:Personally. I started to develop it once I started working with other fighters and I wish I would have known what I've known now when I was fighting.
Speaker 3:They say that makes you better. Right, Like I've heard that you live the life too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one thing that I can connect with those fighters is that I know how it feels to cut weight. I know how it feels to go through a fight camp. I know how it feels to make that walk. I know how it feels to step in the cage, feel the canvas, you know. And that's a connection that you must have with a athlete, with an athlete, and the biggest thing for me is that understanding how they go about their day-to-day practice.
Speaker 2:Right now, I'm living with one of my fighters.
Speaker 2:He's a boxer, robacy Ramirez, and he knows that I understand the process right, I'm a little bit older than him, but the thing is that I know that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I know what it takes to get up, make sure that your diet is on point, make sure that you're getting to the training, make sure that you're doing multiple trains throughout the day, and then the recovery is most important on top of that. But you have all these other stresses, right, because you have daily living, you have family, you have other obligations, so that is another added stressor. So the biggest thing that I was able to understand was fatigue management and especially in mma, because there's multiple modalities of training that you have to go through is finding out what's the best way to recover from each training session and then formulate a process plan so that you can keep progressing down the line. And if you have that, then there's going to be no I would say there's no chance of you actually getting to that point where you over train because, let's face it in the fight game, it's prevalent, yeah. So we want to make sure that we minimize that as much as possible you mentioned recovery.
Speaker 3:I jump in here. I was going to say sorry, I was going to say that man, I was a ridiculous over trainer, yeah, most of my life and there was times where I was hitting plateaus and not understanding I'm like dude, I work out more than anybody I know like I'm in the gym three, three times a day, like how is this, you know? And then it was like those tweaks in nutrition. It was like those tweaks and honestly, it took me a long time to understand that resting is training and you have to have that rest. And I still have a problem with my rest, right, but yeah, you have to.
Speaker 3:You have to plan that rest just like you're planning the workouts, right? Yeah?
Speaker 2:and there's, and it's accumulated fatigue, it's accumulated stress, right, and stress is systemic. So the goal is to figure out, you know what's going to be the most that we need to do to recover from. And you start off minimal and you work your way up to maximal, but you definitely want to hit your. But just make sure that you're starting at a good point, to where you can progress, because if you start too high, you set the ceiling too low, then you can't go nowhere. It's the same thing with a diet right, if you start with calories too low, there's nothing to pull from.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the recovery side of things is very interesting to me because thankfully I had a great coach from the beginning of my career who emphasized rest days as much as the work days, because for him a work day is a rest day as long as you put that work in that rest day.
Speaker 1:So now you're at that point in your career there's been a massive evolution to the knowledge and the old school mentality that I know you fought hard on back in the day with with some of the, the introduction to weights and strength and conditioning in general. I know that that was um at one point in time. You don't have to get into the details and names and stuff but for you to to understand like, no, this is what these athletes need in the strength and conditioning and then implement the recovery program that goes around it. Could you tell us and talk to us um, a, a like a traditional day for one of your athletes and then I want to follow up on a question on the back end of that but a, a traditional recovery what that looks like from a hard working week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it depends on the athlete, obviously, and let's just we'll talk about Robisi as of right now, because I'm with him. So he's fighting for a WBO title. He's actually trying to retain or get his title back from the person that he lost it to, so this is something that is near and dear to his heart.
Speaker 3:It's a big one.
Speaker 2:the get back, it's the get back and he knows what's at stake. He's won two gold medals. He's been a fighter all his life Cuban boxer Seven, I want to say. Since he was seven years old, he's been fighting right Every day, nonstop. So not only is it important for me to get him to recover physically, but also mentally and emotionally right it's a big thing and you know it all correlates.
Speaker 2:if we've done this for so long it gets a little monotonous. Right camps get a little monotonous, and so I try to take him out of the realm of the routine some days and do things that are fun in all actuality but still get the blood flow, still allow him to recover in some ways. So active recovery, active recovery A little pickleball Could be, you know.
Speaker 3:He likes ping pong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a master at ping pong, believe it or not. He beat my boy's ass the other day, didn't he right? Caleb, he got those reflexes.
Speaker 3:I don't play them. I don't play them.
Speaker 2:If I can't win, I'm not going.
Speaker 1:No, I pick my sports too, bro, trust me.
Speaker 2:Trust me, there's things like that, that it's still active, it's still fun and it gets them out of the mind frame of going into the gym every day, boxing, taking your licks and then having to go to strength and conditioning. We're in the mountains now, so we have. The last run we did was a three-mile run up Mount Charleston. We finished at 8,500 feet above sea level, which is good, because we finished last time at only 7,500 feet above sea level. We did a three-mile run.
Speaker 2:The good thing about that is that we can go at a slow pace, at a zone two pace, but he's still getting the benefits of blood flow. He's still getting the benefits of increasing rethropoietin, right red blood cell count, and with that blood flow you got nutrient partitioning, you got all the things necessary for him to recover for the next day. But it's not demanding to where he's building a massive amount of lactate and he's sore. You know muscles get sore, things like that. So a lot of concentric action if we're going to do anything in the weight room. All concentric based, but consistent at a lower percentage of intensity interesting.
Speaker 3:I've been going up there to mount charleston for years doing some of that elevation training, you know, with the fight teams or whatnot. Like that elevation training is no joke bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's no joke. You know, Eric, Eric Nixick, I think you know him. Like we go up there and we'll get some training in it's like three minutes in it's like dude, Don't you feel like you've done 10? Yeah, Like it's just your little heavier, You're out of breath like this, you know, and, yeah, your arms are a little bit, everything feels a little bit slower, you know.
Speaker 1:For you. How long do you spend in the mountains right now? You've been here for how long we're going on? Four weeks how long has you been able to kind of feel that next level?
Speaker 2:take place when we come back down. Really yeah, so train low, yeah live high.
Speaker 1:So, but how many, how many days, weeks does it take for you to feel that?
Speaker 2:it depends on the person. Okay, for me personally, I felt it the first week. It was hard for me to even just lay down and breathe because I'm, you know, I live in sea level. You know I'm in florida. So for me, you know, sleepless nights and I was waking up like out of breath, shortness of breath. Now I feel acclimated. You know sleepless nights and I was waking up like out of breath, shortness of breath. Now I feel acclimated. Now we're getting so I would say, about a week or two, you know, to truly get acclimated.
Speaker 2:I can't, I can't say for everybody. I'll have to look at the literature too as well. But the good thing about Robese is that he's used to going up to that altitude, so we live there primarily. We're spending most of the day there too as well, and obviously throughout the night. So I think it's good. We were originally going to go to Lake Tahoe and it was just away from his camp, his boxing trainer Salas, and so we wanted to stay here. So we went up to Mount Charleston, which it does actually work. It's just a farther drive, it's an hour to get to just civilization.
Speaker 2:It takes 30 minutes.
Speaker 1:If we run out of gas, we're you know, yeah, I've needed a hundred guys a few times up there, indeed, but that's a story for another time?
Speaker 3:um, can I, can I ask one thing so, as you're doing your elevation training, like, where do you stop that? Before the fight itself, like are you, are you cutting that back? You know a week before, is it like a couple days before to keep?
Speaker 2:keep that? Yeah, that's a good question. So we have to be at the, the, the site, I would say the. We're fighting in phoenix. So we have to be there a week right before because all obligations, um, ideally I would say, try to go as close to the fight as possible, right, as close as you can. If you can't, then you know. Obviously I think we're gonna have to leave about a week out.
Speaker 1:When does that decline, though? I want to know, when does that decline?
Speaker 2:I think it does decline after about a week. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And can you mimic that with some of those masks?
Speaker 1:Hyperbaric chambers and stuff, right, right.
Speaker 2:The hyperbaric? Yes, like the. What is it? The high altitude mask? Yeah, the. The only thing that that really does is increase your strength of the diaphragm so it can play a role. It doesn't simulate a high altitude, it just lessens the ability to breathe and let out CO2. So it does increase the strength of the diaphragm, which can obviously help you take in oxygen and let out CO2, which is important for clearing out lactate and so on and so forth. So it does have somewhat of a benefit.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have it be the end all be all but um, if you can definitely go ahead and live high, train low, so that you can get the intensity necessary for you to get the job done. Like if we were to spar at high altitude, it would take us a longer time to acclimate to that intensity. Right, we don't have that amount of time. So when you start off, he's fighting a 12 round fight, let's just say. And we start off with six rounds.
Speaker 2:Now, because he's in shape and because we were starting to work. We got here nine weeks out, actually 10 weeks out. He started sparring nine weeks out because he was already in shape. But most fighters aren't at that level yet, so we have to wait until like around six weeks to truly start to rev up the sparring. You know how that goes, yeah, and so the goal was to improve or increase the volume of the actual sparring rounds, and then we can taper off two weeks out. So, but the good thing, like I said, is that now his ability to take in oxygen, his, his vo2 max, is high, his lactic threshold is high, which, um, that helps us especially in sparring rounds.
Speaker 1:I'm going to go back to an earlier question. I kind of threw in with the whole recovery side of things. The evolution of strength and conditioning, especially from the MMA world I mean from the outside in has just tremendously now just taken off. People are so athletes are so aware of how critical that component was. Athletes are so aware of how critical that component was.
Speaker 1:Taking from my own personal experience when I was boxing, my boxing coach wouldn't allow me knee or weight. They wouldn't allow me. And I came there with big legs playing rugby and I was squatting and my advice was just run them legs off. Well, what they didn't realize is they live in the top of a hill, so my legs were getting stimulated everywhere I go. Pull-ups, push-ups-ups, dips, that's what we always had. Yeah, I had skip, that's all right, I just had skipping and and push-ups. That was it. Um, so the evolution of the strength and conditioning, certainly you've lived in them shoes, and again, you don't even mention names and stuff. But how, how hard was it for you to be in your position, knowing that what you know, and then trying to bring this evolution into certain teams with certain athletes and then fighting that old school until that old school became new school?
Speaker 2:it's difficult, you know. The thing is is that you have to relay over information that correlates over to what they're actually going to do inside the cage or the ring. So if you have an understanding to reframe what you're doing in the weight room has carryover to the cage, then you'll get more buy-in from, let's say, an old school coach and then from there you have to get the results with the things that you do. Once you do that, then you can start to develop that relationship with the old school coach that starts to buy in and adopt these new training methodologies that are going to help the fighter succeed in every way, shape or form. So it takes some time and you you have to nurture that, that relationship with the coach.
Speaker 2:With a strength and conditioning or performance coach, or let's just say even a speed coach or conditioning goes whatever you want to call them they have to have one, they have to have measurable metrics to showcase data is progressing right. So the numbers are exceeding. And then when they go into their skills training, they have to see the correlation. They have to see okay, they're more explosive, they're able to recover faster, their movement is efficient, and a lot of fight coaches want to see better movement quality and they want to see, obviously, the conditioning Right. So those are the main factors for buy-in. First and foremost, we know as strength coaches that the goal is okay depending on where they're at in camp. We want to maybe improve certain elements of the game physical, technical, tactical and mental. So if I can get them stronger in the weight room, it improves their confidence everywhere else in their game. And the big thing that I saw with, you know, a couple of my high level guys, guys that have been in the ufc top 10, some champions people know we've worked with dustin.
Speaker 1:You can name names, bro, you you can. This is full bragging rights for you, bro go ahead.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so dp was uh, when we started. He's worked with some strength and conditioning coaches but he didn't really touch a lot of weights. The goal was, when I saw him, we needed to improve some strength. He wanted to move up to 55. He was actually he moved up to 55, but he needed to build his frame up. And now I mean he barely. I mean he can make 55, but he's a big kid. You've met him several times and the thing is is like I wanted him to match the strength of all these other 55ers that were in the in the actual ufc. And then on top of that you put in the skill, the technical efficiency, the, the mindset right he's, he's got a great fight iq and when you can put that in there and plug the gap of that limiter, then it just makes you a well-rounded athlete. And my goal wasn't to make them better fighters, it was to make them better athletes that can correlate over to their fight game that they already had well established it's a big factor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you have any resistance from some of the fighters adopting this new new age mentality back then?
Speaker 2:back then I would say maybe 40 to 30 percent of them, really yeah. Yeah, they were just a little bit reluctant on doing strength training because they thought they would get too big. Build out, you know, blow out of the weight class, things like that. But when I broke down the science behind certain intensities that weren't going to develop massive hypertrophy, on top of the fact that they were in somewhat of a caloric deficit, anyways, that I said it's, it's almost somewhat impossible.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to build muscle, you know, even though you've done a tremendous job, by the way he's done all right multiple times yeah, but you know how hard it is and if you're not, if you're training constantly and a lot of the training is conditioning based they're burning a ton of calories. You can easily burn a thousand calories in a, in a MMA or wrestling training for two hours, like so easily. And are they? Are they actually putting that back in? Sometimes they're not, because sometimes they don't even want to eat. You know, it's just, it's just a lot, of, a lot of things that they have to do.
Speaker 2:So when I things that they have to do, so when I broke that down, it was more like, okay, cool, and then they started getting stronger, right. They started getting more neuromuscular efficiency, more coordination, more balance, more control. That, when they got into a position let's say, you know, cage wrestling is is very physical right. When they feel that they have control, they have stability, they can maneuver their opponent or their training partner wherever they need to go. They go. Man, this is really working, because I didn't feel that before.
Speaker 1:You know, I was technical and I knew how to get into good positions and I was there at the right times, but now I just feel really solid and that's, that's the feedback that I'm looking for that's going to be good feeling for you too when you've gone through the fight camp there or they're going through it, or through it the other side, and they get going through it or through it the other side, and they get that data feedback to you during that time period. Yeah, and the ones who are on the fence like, okay, I'm soaked now, what else can we do? Yeah, yeah, you know, but you mentioned the mentality, the mental resilience. How much of that played a part in your role as a strength and conditioning guy.
Speaker 2:It played more of a role with the elite guys, because we knew that even when they got stronger, they were going to have to fight the best of the best and it becomes and this is why I'm actually trying to go back. I am going to go back and get my PhD in sports psychology because I feel like that's something that I've been doing primarily, and even as a fighter. You know, we go in there and it's very, it's a big it's a big deal.
Speaker 3:I mean it's it's honestly, when I look at guys and for years you know people, would you know? People say like they look at floyd mayweather and they're like eyes full of himself or whatever, and you know, I would train and I would watch him and he'd sit and he'd shadowbox in the mirror for 20, 20 rounds and the entire time, best in the world, no one could touch you, you know, and he would talk to himself that entire time because he was believed that he was the best in the world and he, mentally, was so strong and hardened that like other people would say, oh, he's, like he's full of himself or like, no, he's confident, like he believes in himself and his ability, you know, and like that's such a powerful thing. And you see guys, when they have that and they're going on a run and they get, they get clipped and once they lose that edge, it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's tough to get back at times, right, it's like the best in the world, say that over and over again, right and we'll, we'll joke. And I've seen I've seen dustin say it many a times, and you know Dustin man, he's very humble in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2:He's a dog Tremendous guy but if you talk about fighting, he's like no, I'm the best in the world Literally will tell you that Straight face, no joking, because he believes it. And you have to say that. You have to say that over and over again Because it becomes true.
Speaker 3:It becomes true in your mind.
Speaker 3:Eventually it starts to manifest in the fight game that confidence too, when you're walking in the ring, right, it's like I used to get really nervous before the fight, like almost couldn't like pick up my arms, like I'd be in the back, like I don't feel good, you know, like I'd be like be in this, like little nervous mode, and then the minute I stepped into the ring it was like there's no way, there's nothing this guy's gonna do that I haven't trained, trained or prepared for.
Speaker 3:And it was like this boom, now I'm in kill mode. But having and knowing that I went through some of those things and also someone like yourself who understands what those feelings are about, like someone once told me hey, dude, calm down. He feels exactly the same way in the other dressing room. He's nervous, he's scared in there right now. So just understand that you've done the prep work and you in the other dressing room, he's nervous, he's scared in there right now. So just understand that you've done the prep work and you've sparred with better guys and you're ready. It's important. Just another day of training.
Speaker 2:We like to say now it's time to put all the tools together that you've been working on and sharpening the axe, and now it's time to use it. And I think that I felt the same way, man. I've been to the point where I was so stressed that I could go to sleep, like my sympathetic nervous system was through the roof and I was like falling asleep. I had to. You know, I had to get candy to wake me up, you know, but it's it's normal and natural because you care. If you didn't care, that'd be a problem. If somebody's like, I'm good right that's a little.
Speaker 1:That's a little um alarming in a sense have you seen any athletes that are too cool in that circumstance?
Speaker 2:I've had a couple. I've had a couple, but the stakes weren't high enough. Right, so you have like. You know, some fighters are like, yeah, it's just another fight. And once you know they understand that it is another fight, then it becomes okay. Well, how much are you willing to go in the fight to win the fight? Because sometimes fighters will go into a fight trying not to lose as opposed to going for the win. You see that a lot. It's two different things Interesting. They try not to lose, they're not going to take any risk, they're just going to play it safe, and sometimes that's okay if you're winning in the fight, right. Right, let's say it's a five round fight, you won four rounds, coast, don't take any more risk, obviously. But if that's not the case the first round and you're not trying to go after him and trying to win, then ultimately you put yourself in a bigger position to lose regardless.
Speaker 1:Yeah the mentality side of things. You went back to the sports psychology. It's, for me a huge interest we talk about all the time on the show. The mentality to any elite athlete is elite, right, but it's been forged by so many different under factors. You know confidence, trauma, you know pain, discipline, discipline. It's just this hodgepodge of everything that's just formed this mindset. And in fighting, of course, you're only as good as your last fight. That's the term right. But in reality, when you're at that level, you're not. You're facing the best of the best. In that top five, everybody could be a world champion on that given day. How hard is it for you to get an athlete that may be coming off back-to-back losses and then still keep that athlete motivated, go through a camp and push him to the extremes that he has gone in the past or she has?
Speaker 2:yeah, it starts with the initial process. When I do an evaluation and assessment on an athlete, if it's my first time working with them, I will run them through first. We'll have a have a full on conversation before we step on the training floor. We'll have about an hour, hour and a half just talking, right, just getting to know you, and I also have to know what type of personality is dominant in you, right? So I run them through a big five factor analysis test and it's been popularized now by jordan peterson primarily. But the goal is to see what trait dominance do they have? Are they very open-minded? Are they conscientious, coachable? Well, yeah, that's gonna, that's gonna be dictated off of their personality traits. If they're coachable, um, they're very open-minded. They want variety too as well, and in some cases those are the a type dopamine dominant type of individuals I get excited bro when I learn new stuff like I love.
Speaker 3:I love that process.
Speaker 2:Then you have guys that are very conscientious, that love routine, that if you put something new in, they ask you why, what's going, why are you doing that? And it's almost nerve-wracking for them.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And some fighters, depending on the person right, I have to dictate my training process, my communication towards who they are as an individual. So when they come off of losses, that okay, I fall back to that. What is their why? What is their deep, why? Let's peel back the layers and find out what the deep meaning of why you're actually stepping into a cage or a ring or on the mats or whatever the case may be. And for you, you know, stepping on stage, what's the point? Why are you putting yourself through this? And then you have to let them understand or think back to when they started this thing and then go to okay, things may change over time, right? So when you start off, you might just want to be a world champion, you might want to win some money, you know, maybe some fame. Once you get to that level, the things will change.
Speaker 2:Now it's I want to set my family up for, you know, future success. I want to be wealthy over time. I want to make sure that I have a long term um stability for my life and for my family. And that's when you start to relay over that information to them like listen, it's not over, don't you have a bigger? Why now that's bigger than you.
Speaker 2:From your 20s to your 30s to your 40s. I've I work with guys well into their 40s, right, and there's a different why from when they were in their 20s, you know. So, yeah, that's the biggest thing is getting to the root cause of the issue and then finding out how I can relay over that information one more time. When the time gets tough, when you know every day is monotonous and you're like, damn, I gotta go back to the gym again, and then I throw in those Okay, let's get out of the gym, let's go to the track, let's go to the stadium, let's go to the beach because I'm in Florida, you know let's go to the mountains, let's change it up, let's have some fun with this, and then also remember why you're doing it.
Speaker 1:Have you had any athletes that have gone from their losses and gone on a new trajectory?
Speaker 2:This is the one right here. We're in that process. Robesio Ramirez is one of those guys. That's a generational talent. He's so good that he doesn't know how good he actually is, and that's one of those things where you've got to feed the flame as much as possible and he may want the belt back, but I think, more than anything, he just wants to be. He wants to live up to his own expectations and to all of our expectations, from all the coaches to all his fans, and and prove everybody right, not wrong, because everybody knows he can do it do you think think natural talent, natural God-given athletic ability sometimes makes it harder?
Speaker 3:I guess harder for some of these guys because they always everything came so easy to them they beat a lot of guys at the other levels really easily and didn't have to put those extra hours in or other. That must be something you come across also.
Speaker 2:Sometimes, yeah, you got guys like Jon Jones that are just gifted, talented beyond belief. It doesn't matter what type of day they're having or what type of night they had prior, they're going to win Of disrespect.
Speaker 3:He's amazing they're having or what type of night they had prior. They're going to win Right With a track record of that. With respect, he loves John.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, he's amazing In my opinion. Say what you want to say with you know whatever he does outside the cage, but in my opinion he's the best fighter, pound for pound, in the world. I agree Bar none. Now, he has natural, god-given talent and so for me, if I were to get with John, I would try to find a way to spark interest into trying to get as much 100%, 110% out of that talent that he has inside of him to relay it over. And that's when he's untouchable, right.
Speaker 2:So, whatever that can be, and a lot of it comes down to just like having fun, right, having fun. If you look at the ties, if you look at you know, even with Cuban boxers, they have fun when they spar. It's not going out there to kill each other, it's going there and helping each other find new ways to articulate, to articulate their, their ability to win a fight. And the biggest thing is that you have to be able to find that out right. You have to go in there and try things that you wouldn't do in a fight if you didn't try it throughout practice. So, getting away from that intensity of man, if I mess up, I'm going to get knocked out in here.
Speaker 3:That's what we were talking about earlier, right, and sparring and understanding, sparring at a level where you can try things. That's how it should be. You guys shouldn't be mad at each other in there. You should be trying to work on your different parts of your craft, right and so, like, boxing culture has always been a little more like kill each other in there, you know, but I've I've liked that it's changed a bit and some of those uh, old school training methods are changing. Refining data. Guys like yourself are pushing forward new methods, right, because a lot of guys probably left their careers in the gym, you know, um, in some of these sparring sessions, I've had.
Speaker 2:I've had crazy sparring sessions that I thought I was fighting.
Speaker 3:It was like more than an actual fight, right. But one thing that I just understanding from even myself I was because I was athletically gifted. I was able to get away with a lot of different things for a lot of years and still be very successful against guys. And as I got older, I realized I need to be more bernard hopkins, like my technique needs to be tighter, like my like, and really working on technique right, because I feel like if you have, you know, some of the athleticism roy jones, right, and you're just so there, like as you get older, right, like you have to improve on those skills, is that something you feel is it's necessary.
Speaker 2:You're maturing as an individual, though, right Well, not just as a martial artist.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, so you're maturing in all aspects of life. It was funny because, like Caleb here is 20 years old, right? So we were having wine last night, me and my boy. You know he's 38, I'm 36. I'm 36. And he's like do you guys like wine? And I'm like we didn't like wine when we were 20.
Speaker 1:No, you just developed a taste for it.
Speaker 2:Now You're just getting old. You just know you're getting old. Yeah, we got to drink something.
Speaker 1:You just become a little bougie too. You know what wine is nice and what's not right? A little Jesus juice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Big fact.
Speaker 3:So as an individual, and that changes your outlook on preparation, too, as well. Right, talking of preparation, did you?
Speaker 2:just swallow his in? No, I did not swallow my in. I thought that's what happened.
Speaker 1:Let me get out of my mouth. This is a live show Talking about preparation. You just put yourself through one hell of a ruck and, Matt, I followed the journey and obviously I want the audience who don't know what you've done to spell it all out. Obviously, it was in the name of charity as well. In the name of charity as well, and without me butchering this, I want you to tell the story of how you went about this and the story that unfolded.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So a Ruck march primarily is from military right, and so my goal was to put myself in a position of a lot of my guys that I look up to, that I can call friends and raise money for certain charities at that time, and put myself through a difficult situation in order for me one to find myself again Right and try something somewhat dangerous in a way to overcome obstacles, to overcome the odds and to really find out who I was. And sometimes you have to do that right. It's either you get in there, you go for a hard training session, but I wanted to take it to the next level, and so I had a 60-pound ruck that I put on my back. My goal was to do 150 miles, and it was.
Speaker 2:You know, we didn't know how this was going to go, because nobody's really done it like with how I was doing it right. So I had four days to accomplish the goal and there were some things that needed to be that we didn't understand, that were that kind of went, went astray. But so I started in Miami and I was going to walk or march up to Fort Pierce, florida, and and end it there, and the biggest thing was that we didn't have really any any help to a degree, right now going back, and when I do it again, we'll change it up. But you got to take into account the elements right Rain, puddles, right, then also elevations. Well, that's Florida, it's Florida. Okay, we're not going to yeah, true that.
Speaker 2:But the biggest thing was navigating through Miami and then getting into Broward and then going through that. And so we had, we had, we had Broward Sheriff's Office. That helped us to a degree and gave us some roads to clear and so that we could go faster, but it was the time that I needed to get it done was one thing, and then also just overcoming the pain of the actual ruck so 60 pounds dry on my back and within the 10th mile I was doing about a five minute was a five minute per mile pace at that point. So I was moving, I was going fast and I was running, walking until I got to mile 10. And then we reached a point where there was no way around it. I had to step in this puddle and this puddle was ankle deep and I had my best shoes on, so I was like this is the. These are the shoes that I wanted to rock primarily in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're not talking Jordan ones or anything like that. We're talking about where your bad shoe is.
Speaker 2:There were solid shoes, and then I had my boots that I was going to just switch on and off in, and so I stepped in the puddle and I knew right then, and there I, was like damn, it's going to be a big one.
Speaker 2:And when you step in a puddle, obviously you know foot's wet, foot's wet. You're going to start to develop socks. Yep, socks are done, drenched. So you're going to start to develop those blisters. And I was like, okay, I prepared for that mentally, for like down the road, we're talking mile 50, maybe not mile 10. So when I got that, we didn't have a check mark or we didn't have a place to stay or to stop for another 10 miles. So I had to go for 10 miles in soaking wet shoes and socks. And then I started to develop the blisters and I was like, ok, it's bad, but I can manage it.
Speaker 2:And then by the time mile 15 hit, basically all my toenails were falling off. I had hot spots on the ball of my foot, on my heel, and then all my toes had blisters on them. And so we got to mile 25 and I couldn't stand up straight. And it was at that point where I go, damn, I'm, I'm not worried about not finishing, I'm worried about not finishing on the time frame that I said I was going to finish on and I said I got 20, I did 25 miles and I'm in pain and I've been through fights where I felt like I was going to die. This is the worst pain I've ever been in, and the reason why was because, literally, the skin was peeling off the bottom of my feet. Yeah, it's the worst you showed it.
Speaker 1:That's the thing you documented, this whole thing.
Speaker 2:I had to document the whole thing because I wanted people to see that I'm not going to quit on my own accord. I'm not going to quit physically, I'm definitely not going to quit mentally, but I have to go as far as I possibly can physically, mentally, emotionally, everything. So by mile 25, at this point I'm just trying to wrap everything up Jose, my guy, he's a Marine. He looked at my feet. He goes yeah, I mean, we've been through worse, so we can do this and I was like all right, cool, so wrap this thing up. We duct taped it. You know, whatever we could, you know mold, mold tape and duct tape.
Speaker 2:And uh, at this point I was, you know, I've been up for about 30 hours, maybe somewhere around 20 hours, something like that and then we went out and I marched another 10 miles. By that 10th mile I've got to Boca. They, they looked at my feet and he goes, the same person. He goes this is the worst I've ever seen. He's like. And this is when I had, I was sitting in the um, I was sitting in the RV and I was documenting it and that's when, all like, basically four of my toenails were gone, my big toe, something. It was like busted up. It's still gone to this day, but yeah, it was messed up. I was in pain and it was hot. At that point it was probably around 98 degrees.
Speaker 3:It's tough to deal with, right? It's like I mean you just have to just block the pain and just go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there was no point in time where I was like I'm stopping because it hurts, that wasn't. That wasn't the issue. It was I want to make sure that I can get to the end goal at that time frame that I said I was going to get you know, so just wrapped it up again, kept moving. Now, at this point I went from basically somewhere around a 10 minute per mile pace to 20 22, so now I'm like crawling, basically, like just slowly trying to get through it, and every step felt like I was walking on broken glass and my back was fine. Everything else was solid, as far as from a strength standpoint, I had no problems there, just my base of support was going through it.
Speaker 2:And so I got to right around Delray beach and I was going up Atlantic. You know that, you know that area. I was going up this, this, uh, this bridge, and one of my guys started videotaping me and I didn't even see it. I was, I was in tunnel vision at that point and, uh, he asked me, like you know, and I cleared everybody out because I didn't want to be around anybody at that point.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to be alone, I want to be left in solitude, so I could just put my mind in a different position. And it wasn't on them. I had to do this on my own. And so at that point I'm like, listen, it's either you are going to go through this painfully and get it done or you're going to fold. And you said what you said. You said you were going to finish, and every time I wanted to quit and trust me. Every step, I wanted to quit, every step. I wanted to be like you're good. And you know how that goes, man. You get these voices in your head telling you this guy and this shit.
Speaker 3:Shut that shit up. It's two.
Speaker 2:It's like the dichotomy and Shut that shit out. It's two. It's like the dichotomy, you know, and you go shut up, you're right, keep going, shut up, you're right, keep going. And that's all I kept saying. It's like just keep walking, one foot in front of the other, one foot in front of the other. And so I had a goal. I was like all right, I want to 60 hours no sleep.
Speaker 2:And I started to feel like legs started to shut down, you know, everything started to hurt, cramping, all of that. So I got to mile 50. I was like let me get to mile 50 and let's let uh, uh, you know, let's, let's go to the hospital and let them wrap up my feet the right way so I don't get any infection, so that doesn't hurt the whole thing. Feet the right way, so I don't get any infection, so this doesn't hurt the whole thing. So we got to mile 51. We went to the hospital. I was like listen, here's my feet. Long story short, I'm doing this for charity, I need to get this done. And they're like well, let's just run some labs. And I'm like all right, whatever, but I need to get that back out there. So they ran the labs and they're like listen, we know you have to do this or whatever, like they didn't even understand the process. And they were kind of looking at me like I'm crazy, you know, for doing this. And they're like your creatine kinase levels are like 10x of what they should be, and so usually if you have a hard training session, you're at like 300, right, I was at 10,000.
Speaker 2:So they said and I was starting to piss blood at this point so and they said, if you don't stop, you're gonna have kidney failure and it's gonna take you a long time to get out of this and you know, so, full-blown rabdo.
Speaker 2:And at that point I said I had had to think about it and I had to actually actually ask Wyatt, who is one of my coaches, and he was with me the whole time and he goes bro, I wanted you to stop, like 10 miles ago, you know. And then I called my wife and she was like I know this means a lot to you, but let's think about this long term. And at that point I go well, I could try to get this going and I could fail miserably on my face and then not have the attempt to do it again in the next couple of months, be out for a year and a half or whatever, and be selfish about it and not be able to train my guys or I can live to fight another day. And it was hard and I took some time to really think about it and finally was like all right, listen, let's call it, but I'm gonna go back to it and you called it on.
Speaker 1:Listen, as as much as you hate to do it yeah, I think the best call was the call. And then you and I were messing each other and you told me I think I messaged you when you were on the rock.
Speaker 2:You did. I appreciate that too. Yeah, that means a lot too when you reached out. It gave me some extra motivation, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't know if I pushed you to more blisters, but if that's the badge, you wanted to protect you.
Speaker 2:I don't know You've gone through some difficult situations that everybody knows and maybe they don't know. So when you text me that and a couple others text me too as well some tier one guys that I'm really close with they were like bro, stop, like what are you doing? You don't have to go anymore and from them to tell me that I was like okay.
Speaker 3:I'm on the right path, at least. There's definitely a point where you're doing yourself more harm than good, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, bro, have you seen the mess of his feet? We'll probably put some B-roll on after this.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know.
Speaker 1:They were a mess. He sent me a photo of his feet. I don't know if he even posted this, but I was like, bro, I'm good, I'm wrapping these up, I'm good, and you told me about you walking through the puddle and how that just took him out of of it from the beginning.
Speaker 3:But, um, but I know how those rock walks, feel, you know, like I was in the marine corps, so we did them on the beach and we would do eight miles on the beach, we would do and, and the amount of thank you for your service.
Speaker 2:By the way, thank you for your course 100 the amount of stress fractures.
Speaker 3:I mean like, literally dudes, feets look like feet, look like they were peeled off. Uh, knee, what's the shin splints? You know, and we weren't going that far, you know, like we would probably do eight to ten miles, which was still really hard.
Speaker 1:Still a lot though, bro.
Speaker 3:Still really hard and guys would be falling out. That you know. We'd always have guys falling out, so I can only imagine going that far. It's wild.
Speaker 1:And Rabdo. So obviously you then came away withhabdo, which, speaking from personal experience, is no joke. How long did it take you to knock out that?
Speaker 2:I went and retested, so about two to three weeks, and I was like it came down a little bit Obviously, a ton of electrolytes. I was in the hospital for three days, two or three days, I believe, I don't remember. But you know, after that I the good thing about this was like I'm very um, I don't know, I can't sit still let's put it like that, right. My wife hates that right at this point, when I was like I was like laying down. I was like I'm laying down I kind of earned that one yeah.
Speaker 2:So she's like this is the best I've ever seen you like you're laying down that's because, babe, I can't move, I can't move.
Speaker 3:How long did it take for your feet to?
Speaker 2:heal, I still got six toenails missing. How long has it been? Oh, it's July. So what is it? October now?
Speaker 1:Yeah, A few months.
Speaker 2:Coming up to five, six months. Right, five been five months. Um, what was the biggest thing you took away from that? Just just knowing that I can push. I can push through anything you know, and into the point where I put myself in the hospital, which is in all weirdness. I guess you could say I'll give you a badge of honor yeah, it's mindset though, too.
Speaker 3:It's like what we were talking about, you know, before the before we started, was it's like pushing yourself, constantly testing ourselves as men, as humans, right, it's like constantly testing ourselves a bit and humans, right, it's like constantly testing ourselves a bit and seeing how far we can push ourselves, I think keeps us sharp, man. It's like, even just every day, like we've built these habits. Um, that's that, obviously, you know, it just keeps you sharp, and you know I want to stay mentally ready as well, you know yeah, I think every man and woman needs to get to that level, right at that edge, to see how far they can go.
Speaker 2:And then the good thing about that is that you just increase that edge a little bit more. And now you made yourself that much more hard to kill. That's all it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You mentioned about not sitting. Still, kind of nice segue into the business side of yourself. You're working on a couple of new things. The floor is yours, my friend. Push and promote.
Speaker 2:The best thing that we've got going on right now is the Fight Life membership slash app. The good thing there is that I'm putting all of my programs and consolidating them into this app, along with being able to bring on skills, trainers, coaches, technical aspect into this app as well for a full membership for everybody. And then on top of that, you know, obviously you're going to have the strength and conditioning. You have the one-on-one coaching. It's something that I wanted to bring to a lot of the fighters that were, that are overseas too, that can't train with me. They can't come to florida or anything like that, or I can't get out to them. It gives me the ability to work with them from anywhere in the world, which is awesome. And then also I'm able to put new programs and put new coaches in there too as well, to help them get the notoriety necessary for them to, you know, exceed in the, in the, in the sport. Then on top of that, we have the best thing that I'm. I'm. I'm looking forward to this because and this is where I want to talk to you about it kind of mentor me in this way.
Speaker 2:But I'm coming up with two supplements. One I used to have it's called battle tested. It's a. It was a post workout, primarily because I was sick of having to bring all these things together after post weigh in and I was like, man, let me just, let me just make my own. And so what we're doing is we're doing a pre and a post trainingtraining supplement for fighters, specifically for fighters. So beta-alanine, creatine, the things that are going to enhance their ability on the ring or in the cage, and so on and so forth. So I'm excited about that. That should be launching pretty soon, within the next couple of months, and the app's going to be coming out pretty soon, probably by this time of year. Sounds awesome.
Speaker 3:I want to try. I need to try the uh, the pills, yeah, yeah, it'll be powder okay, so we got it.
Speaker 2:The formulations is crazy, which I'm very happy about, so it's going to be a mix and I'm not going to say the whole thing, but it will definitely be something different and it'll allow for the specific fighters that I'm thinking about actually putting this together for help them in all aspects of the game. So, remember, we talked about recoverability, the biggest thing that we have. The problem that we have is that there's multiple training sessions throughout the day, so I need to get them recovered for the next training session. So it needs to be be quick, fast acting and ready to go. So I'm excited that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, for me, my friend, I'm just glad to have you on here. There's always something new, there's always something exciting that's going on. And because you and I see each other periodically because obviously you've been on the East Coast, me being on the West Coast, but every time you come to las vegas, whether it's you, you've got a fighter or you're here for speaking engagements or whatever else you're doing it's great for me to see this evolution. And you're always, you're always on to the next. And I go back to that young, hungry lion cub that I met in boca raton.
Speaker 2:We both were let's be honest, right?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, for sure and and our lives have just blown up in two different directions but nonetheless they've blown up right and it just goes to show for me that the conversations we were having way back when are now still being done on a much bigger scale, because you've changed your way and the confidence that you install, the mental confidence that you install in the fighters, I can see has come from somebody that's been battle tested and putting themselves out and leading from the front in all the things that you've done. And we've only recaptured a small snippet of this last year and covered a few other things. But there's much more to you and more than anything else because my brother worked with you under you there's so much unseen that goes into the coaching side of things and I think a lot of the times coaches don't get the recognition that they deserve. You know, obviously the fighter is the one that is obviously in the octagon, the cage is shut. But the process of getting them there, everybody plays their part. You know every coach has their influence, their touch in that fight to become that better version of themselves.
Speaker 1:And for me, matt, I see what you do. You know I'm the unseen. I don't see, but I do know, coming from our mutual friends. You're an incredible coach and somebody that truly pours his heart into each and every one of these athletes. Hence why you've been out here for so many weeks in the mountains, away from your family, putting that full focus into this fight camp. It just goes to show who you are as a coach, my friend.
Speaker 2:It means a lot coming from you. You know, that I hold you in high regard, look at you as a mentor, and I actually said this before we walked in. I said, man, you're doing a great job. Man, I remember that Boca gym. I remember that I was like, and now, seeing the pop-ups and all this, man, I appreciate everything and thank you for having me. Oh, we knew.
Speaker 1:We've been trying to do this for a long time we've been trying to do this for a long time and, uh, right now obviously we're running on parameters because we're all so busy. Yeah yeah phil has got his time slot, jay rock has got his time slot, and I'm the one today that has cleared my whole day, so I'm the one that's not going to keep on very rare, very rare very rare, but um, nonetheless, my bro, um, if, if there anything that I can do for you whilst you're in town.
Speaker 1:you know the score. This is your home, from home. You've brought athletes here and I appreciate that. And when is the big day for the next upcoming fight? December 7th, december 7th In Las.
Speaker 2:Vegas. Or you said Arizona, right, it would be Arizona, top-ranked promotions. And, yeah, we're looking to get the title back. And who is he against? And yeah, we're looking to get the title back. And who is he against? His name is Espinosa Tough Mexican fighter, 6'1". So he's tall, oh, 6'1". Yeah, at 126.
Speaker 3:Wow, shit, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we got it, and I mean he did a good job. We wobbled him in the first round, the first fight. This is when I wasn't working with him and he came back to win the fight. But it's a whole different Robycy this time around.
Speaker 1:My man, phil DeRue, trainer to the stars in Hollywood, all the way to the guys in the cage and the ring. It's a pleasure to have you on Straight Outta La Lair Rock. We are out.
